List of Sony TRV900 Tape Crinkle Problems Compiled from private email and TRV900 mailing list messages by John Beale ---------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:11:16 -0400 Subject: [TRV900] Re: Tape crinkling on rewinding From: George.Philip Notes airtouch com I have been using only Sony tapes so far, about 12 of them. In that, 1 of them was Sony DVM-60EXM, 5 Sony DVM-60N2, and 6 Sony DVM-60EX.. Couple of the EXs were affected really bad (almost last 5-8 mins while packing -so I no longer pack tapes in my TRV900!). Even the premium EXM (w/mem) also had the same problem !. \George. ------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:12:39 -0700 From: "Carl_999" CarlVideo erols com I have only been using Panasonic tapes lately, both AY-DVM63EB "For Professional," and the 60 min. panasonic tapes. I've just checked my 4 crinkled tapes. They're all the 63's, thought that's mostly what I've been using lately. But I have noticed that the problem seems to be worse when rewinding from the very end of the tape. One of my 900's only seems to crinkle the tape at the very end when rewinding. Not sure about the other one, will have to check it. --Carl Knittle ------------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey F. Krepner" jkrepner teksystems com Carl, What area are you located in? I too have a 900 that cinkles tapes. Sony said to send it to their PA service center. thank you, Jeff -------------------------------------- From: "Carl_999" CarlVideo erols com Jeff, I'm in the Washington, DC area (Ashburn, VA, to be exact). Actually, I have And I've noticed it only when attempting to rewind when the tape is at or near the end. I seems to affect the audio primarily. The other one seems to crinkle the tapes on rewinding wherever it starts, I believe, and very badly, ruining audio & video, and everytime I've tried it recently. I'll have to check whether it does it wherver it starts. Both seem to record fine, fortunately. However, since I want to always be sure of having 2 900's on hand for weddings, and it may take Sony weeks to repair them, I went ahead and bought a third 900! Carl R. Knittle ------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:51:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [TRV900] Re: Tape crinkling on rewinding From: "Jeffrey F. Krepner" jkrepner teksystems com George, Mine is under parts warranty not labor warranty and sony said it would be $209 to fix it. I don't think it is a bad price but, the camera is less then a year old. Carl in DC has two with this problem, you and I both have one, so four cameras, that I know of, have problems on a model that's only been on the market for a year or so. I think one us needs to write a letter to Sony. (any English majors out there!?) How many people own this camera that are not on this list? If this is a well known problem I think Sony owes us something. I had a problem with a viewfinder on an XL1 I bought used and with out question Canon fixed the viewfinder with out proof of purchase and I got it back in less then a week because it was a "known" problem. If we can get Sony to make this a "known" problem then we would be set. I guarantee that even after this problem is fixed it will start acting up again in a few months. I'm not bitter, I'm just aware. Jeff, scuzzo film ---------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:05:05 -0400 From: George.Philip Notes airtouch com Jeff, Here I am, in Columbus,OH area having the same exact problem as yours.. My TRV900 while packing or FF/REWing, crinkles the tape towards the last 2-3 minutes (sometimes more) of every tape. I noticed this happen only when the tape is near its end though. So when I record, I try to avoid the last couple of minutes of every tape, which still gives me of course 60 mins worth of video ?!. Wonder, if I really need to send mine to the sony service center to repair this fault (?). Mine is still under factory warranty. \George. ------------------------------------------------ Subject: Help!!! Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:18:43 -0600 John- My 4 month old TRV900 just ate a Panasonic tape and refuses to eject the tape. Any suggestions? Is this common? Do you have any idea what this will cost to fix and what the turnaround would be? Thanks- Paul Gerrard (pkigerrard uswest net) ----------------- From: "Carl_999" (CarlVideo at erols com) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:17:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [TRV900] Itermittent loss of sound > After my first recording with camera I watched the results visual and sound were ok, I have since been on holiday with camera after using 6 sony DVM60EXM tapes all these ok, when I came home I replayed my first original tape Sony DV Premium 60, the sound appears to be missing in places at random it seems strange that I had watched this tape before and it was perfect,the picture quality is still ok, incidentally the sound is ok in some parts of tape. --Dave Newson. Dave, This sound exactly like a problem I've had with all 3 of my 900's, namely tape-crinkling (which I believe only happens when rewinding -- I hear a very clear "tape crinkling" sound when it's happening). For a mild crinkle, affecting only the edge of a tape, just the audio will drop out--completely. For worse crinkles, video gets distorted as well; for the worst ones, which has only happened to me once, the audio and video drop out completely, as does the time code display. I suspect that if you stop the tape exactly when you hear an audio drop out, take out the tape and look at it closely, you'll notice that the tape edge looks a little bent or folded. Once I could see that the edge of a tape was actually folded under itself slightly on one of the rollers, but OK on the other roller. I've had this problem mainly, but not exclusively, at or near the end of tapes. --Carl Knittle ------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:58:43 +0100 From: translators.guild at t-online de (Hajj Mahmud Lund) To the 900 list and John Beale I am very concerned about this crinkled tape issue as it turned out to be present with the problems I reported a couple of weeks back. The following is summary of what happened so far and I hope that we can pursue this with the main point being to determine are these tape-induced problems or camera mechanism problems. If they are tape induced then we may be able to identify the pattern of usage/abuse which gives rise to them and also determine if the wrinkled tape damages the camera. At the time I found re-occuring artifacts showing up, even though not at exactly the same frames on repeated playback. Then the audio started to drop out, again in slightly varying pattern with each playback. Finally I had a C:xx xx error message and none of the 900's controls worked including eject. Removal of power, waiting a minute and battery back on, and then I could eject the tape. Examination of the tape showed severe tape wrinkling, even to the point of what I would call scratching, apparently removing the coating in diagonal streaks. I manually rewound the tape back before the damaged section (for those who haven't tried yet the DV cassetes have a spool lock which is released by moving the tiny trigger located on the center underside opposite the tape flap)and could play the rest without fault. This was a TDK DVM60MEEB. It was recorded once previously in this section - towards the last 20 minutes of a 60 min. tape. I do a reasonable amount of editing in camera, meaning laying on titles, dubbing audio, etc. requiring pausing and shuttling forward and reverse but not excessively (in my opinion, considering the very small momentum of the mechanism, etc.). My 900 was purchased in July and has received a lot of use, recording some 25-30 hours, plus a lot of hours (60 +) acting as source VTR for copying completed and/or re-mastered programs from DV. My original tape allotment has been 11 x Sony DVM60EX and 5 x TDK DVM60, freely interchanged. I have just had to buy the feared Panasonic AV-DVM60BK as no Sonys were available. Haven't yet tried them, but I leave for Albania on Tuesday, insha'Allah and will find out in action (I will also have a Canon XL-1 so won't be stuck if the 900 bombs out). I have also gotten a cleaning cassette now - Canon - and used it twice. Since the first tape wrinkling I have had another occurence with a second TDK DVM60MEEB tape, also towards the end, but still with more than 10 minutes of SP recoring time remaining! I am loath to send the 900 in for repair until I see if the tapes were the problem. Otherwise it seems to be recording and playing back well. By the way the first tape to produce the C:xx xx error message on my 900 was a Sony DVM60EX. Also towards tape end. All contributions to solving this one are welcome. --------------------- Subject: Re: [TRV900] Itermittent loss of sound From: "Graham Baker" (plantek at bigpond com) To: > I appeared to have cured the disappearing sound by simply rewinding the > tape from end to end but in doing so when tape was 1 minute from the far > end. Camera displayed warning in C:31:32 and stopped working according to > manual this is not mentioned. I proceeded to eject the tape, once out I > could see it had pulled part of tape out of cassette and that part was > really creased but fortunately there was no recording on that part. I > managed to rewind tape by hand gently passed crease, inserted tape once > again and noted it was 1 minute before end of tape, I will make sure I > keep it away from that section in future. Once re-wound I pressed play > and bingo sound was back to normal again with no loss of sound. In view > of all this I think it points to tape not tensioning correctly for > replaying. I dont know if this is a permanent cure only time will > tell. But it seems important to re-wind totally end to end which is what I > had done on my now ageing Sony 6000 Hi 8 camera but only before recording > which apparently stopped it chewing tapes up. ? > PS. Incidently on inspection tape showed no sign of crinkling where there > was no sound before. Many thanks to Tom and all contributors. --David That's exactly the symptoms I was getting before my TRV900 started chewing tapes. It was repaired by Sony - the 'reel tables' were replaced. According to the Sony tech, the reel tables are a kind of magnetic clutch that control the tape movement - probably one on each tape hub. They would be responsible for the tape tension to a large extent, I would think. The tech mentioned that this problem is quite common on previous Sony DV models and it looks like it might still be a problem with TRV900's.... -GB -------------------- Subject: Re: [TRV900] Tape Crinkle Stirkes Again Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 11:46:23 -0800 From: Stephen Tanenbaum (stevepat at home net) To: TRV900@onelist.com Hi Simon: Here is my long winded story as sent to two user group members neither of whom has replied to me. Just brought my TRV900 back to Sony for 2nd attempted repair. First repair, mentioned below FAILED ON FIRST TESTING!!!!!. Tape recorded to end and jammed on rewind same as yours with partially exposed tape and of course crinkled/damaged. I have yet to shoot a single full cassette since 5/28 and have used JVC, Sony and Panasonic. It IS NOT THE TAPE!!!! Following is my STORY sent pre-Sony first failed repair. Purchased my TRV900 last May. Had only time to shoot 20 minutes per cassette a few times. Then off on a three month around the world trip and, at the last minute, excite@Home agreed to run a weekly video series following us. At destination #1 Hong Kong I found glitched scenes, fragmented on playback. Eventually when this reocurred I looked at the tape and saw ugly stretch marks. Having weeks to ponder I condluded, strictly lay non technical thinking, that some gear etc was pulling on the tape and this was occuring during the 30-50 minute second half of cassettes. I had plugged into this user group before leaving and heard of some type of problems with Panasonic tapes which was supposedly fixed. Also about winding and rewinding before use. I considered all and did the rewind thing. I had different brands of tape, excite@home gave me 80 minute Panasonic, But I later used regular Sony, 60 minute Panasonic and JVC. Same catastrophic problem on all. Finally, unable to reach a Sony repair center I filmed using only the first 25-30 minutes of each tape. ONly once, did the tape glitch at the 10 minute mark. so that I was able to complete the filmin and return back to San Francisco October 16th. Just received my repaired (from sony center San Bruno) TRV900. Repair receipt states "constant irregular motion. replaced parts, mechanical adjustment, cleaned lubricated." parts replaced were Cassette compartment and something called PWB..FP-676 FLEXIBL 01-012d (PART #x39484412 AND 166951521 R4ESPECTIVELY) I did the one thing possible and held my finger on the manual edit button which I reckoned does a slow rewind. I did this for 10 minutes hoping I would reach a point where the rewind button would kick in which IT DID! While holding the edit button I could see the tape intermittantly pause, struggling to go forward which little by little it did. Nerve racking and video horrors except through all this we could pretty much film on the first half of cassettes. Just what I needed from a new $2,100 camcorder. Please fill me in on what is happening....sorry to be long winded but I am now catching up and we leave in February for 3 months to the south pacific where again we film a new show for excite@Home. Oh, I am certain, had I tested the TRV900 shooting full tapes the problem would have reared its ugly head prior to departure. I am certain users will need to band together. I've given Sony 60s to repair or replace and have demanded replacement. Sorry state of high tech affairs. Steve Tanenbaum --------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [TRV900] Got my TRV900 back from Tape Crinkle repair. Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:45:53 -0800 From: Stephen Tanenbaum (stevepat at home net) Also, got my TRV900 back from 2nd rapair effort. Sony replaced entire tape assembly module and heads. First time I have been able to play and rewind any tapes. Tested two tapes to the very END...so far thumbs up! No scum problem,,,unit defective out of the box BUT didn't find out about it till I finally recorded a full cassette. -------------------------------------- Subject: [TRV900] PD-100 Crinkle Stinkle Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:19:50 -0700 From: "Bill O'Neill" (celtfire at access1 net) To: TRV900@egroups.com The "crinkle" problem hit my PD-100a on Saturday. I was shooting interviews and B-Roll shots for a documentary. We just finished of f the last tape (of 4 recorded that day) and I put the camera in playback and then rewind so I could screen the last interviews. The window displayed a 31: error. I ejected the tape and looked at the physical tape on the cassette. It wasn't smooth, but just a little bit crinkled on the edges. I re-inserted the cassette and hit rewind again. The cassette rewound for a few seconds and then stopped. The error message displayed again and now the tape was badly damaged. I told the client what had happened and that the last part of the tape was probably irretrievable. I plan to call the Sony Pro Information phone number (1-800-686-7669) on Tuesday and find out my options. I believe that I'm covered for the 1st year of ownership with Sony and I bought an extended warranty from Cameraworld for several years more coverage. Have any PD-100 owners out there had this problem and what was your solution/solutions? I've ordered mini-DVCAM tapes for future use and maybe should order a cleaning cassette, although I don't trust what they could do the camcorder's delicate mechanism. I did look carefully at the guides and rollers and they look clean. I'll clean all surfaces with denatured , full strength alcohol using small chamois sticks (no lint!) and possibly try recording on a tape. I work with my PD-100 and need a quick fix or a replacement from Sony. I've been shooting Beta and Beta SP for years and always received excellent help and service from the Professional side of Sony. I hope the PD-100 users get the same level of respect. Have any PD-100 users on the list experienced the same problem, and if so, what did you do about it? Celtfire Productions Irvine, California Video-Film-Multimedia -------------------------------- Subject: 900 repair history Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:49:57 -0800 From: "Eugene Leman" (eleman at dsldesigns net) Hi Thanks for the great website,I have used it since you started it and it was material in buying a 900 myself. However after about running 80 or so tapes thru it the dreaded tape crinkling started.My remedy was to avoid the last 10 minutes of tape.Then my microphone died and the camera went in for repair.I mentioned the tape problem and Sony replaced a tape turntable.The audio problem was fixed but the tape problem was now much worse, could not rewind after 40 min of use,got an error code. So back it went to Freemont an other tape turtable was replaced plus the capstan motor. When I went to the Sony Center in San Jose I took batteries and tape along, fast forwarded a tape to the end and sure enough error code and no rewind.Tried this with Sony ,TDK and JVC tapes,same problem. Since we where leaving on vacation I took the camera along, at least I could record ok. Upon returning the camera went back and Sony replaced the entire tape deck. Took tapes and batteries along when picking up the camera and had no problems with the exact same tapes that did not rewind before. Run tapes back and forth to very end at least 20X and no problem. Luckily I had bought extra warranty for 5 years and had no problem .The $230 repair fee for the first repair was refunded promptly, the other two returns were covered by Sony. Gene.